Blackout Of 2003

[sylph]

Do you think the blackout has caused people to be more resource-conserving and environmentally friendly? Will our world change for the better, at least in the eyes of tree-hugging hippies?

What I thought was the weirdest was that considering how technologically advanced we are, how is it that this sort of thing could happen?

[rich]

Dear sylph,

Your post is certainly on a timely topic. When you ask for thoughts of others on a topic like this,
probably you will find many diverse opinions, each one a unique opinion, in which, some will agree with your thoughts, others will not. :huh:

There certainly are some who will get the message, and practice to conserve. Others will not. :o

One consolation is, the 20th century was the century which united the world through technology. We hope that the 21st century will be the century to open to every person, the opportunity to share in it. :D

If this can not be done, without upsetting the greedy, all of us better be prepared to remodel our lifestyles, and do w/o the technological advances, the automobile, the airplane, perhaps tv's and computers, for the demands for energy will be greater than what can be supplied.

And power plants will all be vulnerable targets
for the terrorist to strike. We hope that those that are greedy, will not be the cause for winning converts over to terrorism. :ph34r:

One person's opinion, that's all. ;)

[Thomas Knierim]

Sylph: Do you think the blackout has caused people to be more resource-conserving and environmentally friendly?

Certainly during the hours of the blackout! :lol:

In order to consolidate global energy savings and to educate the public, I suggest that blackouts shall be conducted every three weeks with progressively longer durations. Of course, first world denizens are encouraged to visit third-world power grid locations for practice, in order to immerse themselves into advanced energy saving experiences. I would like to recommend Cambodia, India, and especially the Laotian highlands.

Travel advisory to American tourists: No, there is no "Holiday Inn" in these locations. :(

Cheers, Thomas

[Polaris]

We weren't affected by the black-out here but I felt vunerable.

I grew up in Quebec..... Land of Hydro-electricity. We had frequent black-outs, mostly during snow storms, as I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. I had to opportunity early on to understand the fine workings of the power grid. When the lights came back on, we never blew out the candles because we knew there was a better than 50% chance the lights would go right back out again. Getting the input and the output equal is a delicate balancing act. So in this recent black-out I had the feeling that as the lights went back on in the areas affected, there was a good chance I might lose my lights here in the Maritimes. It all depended on the source of the electricity and how well it was being balanced.... all things being interconnected. It's always a crap shoot turning the power back on because you never know how many appliances will sudden spring back to life with the resurgence of power, once again sapping the grid.

The proper thing to do if at all possible if you are in the midst of a black-out is to go down to your entry and purposefully turn off ALL the power in your house. Then, not only will you not be a drain on the delicate power grid when it's switched back on, you also wont lose any of your electrical appliances to brown-outs and power surges.

I heard from some friends in Toronto that Mayor Mel Lastman wanted Toronto to be exempt from the rolling black-outs which were to occur in the days following the black-out... AND that the Toronto City Hall was a blazing lights once the power came back on... including the huge flood lights which shine all over the outside of the buildings.

My conclusion is that the people who don't strut around with some twisted sense of entitlement (like Mel Lastman) might now remember to turn off the lights when they leave a room but there will always be people like Mel out there who think it's not their responsibility.

[Ronagon]

I think three things explain the blackout of 2003:

1) Enron execs suddenly ditching the company. Panic? Could they have known something...

2) An escalation of hostilities between the oil-rich Arab nations, led and financed by the Saudis, and the oil-dependent Western world, over possession of oil fields...

3) A sudden major push toward hydrogen power (yes, it's really happening)...

I think the elites on both sides of the war on terrorism have secretly known that the oil is running out, and that's why the sudden aggression from both side. I've read that theory in other magazines, and if it's true, well you ain't seen nothing yet.

Cannibalism, anyone?

[Polaris]

Originally posted by Ronagon@Aug 31 2003, 06:18 AM
I think three things explain the blackout of 2003:

1) Enron execs suddenly ditching the company. Panic? Could they have known something...

2) An escalation of hostilities between the oil-rich Arab nations, led and financed by the Saudis, and the oil-dependent Western world, over possession of oil fields...

3) A sudden major push toward hydrogen power (yes, it's really happening)...

I think the elites on both sides of the war on terrorism have secretly known that the oil is running out, and that's why the sudden aggression from both side. I've read that theory in other magazines, and if it's true, well you ain't seen nothing yet.

Cannibalism, anyone?
I'm not going to say you are right or wrong on any of these points. It does seem like fear-mongering though.

All of those points are as speculative and useless as me saying that the US planted that one mad cow into Canada's cattle industry to destroy our beef market and create havoc with our economy because we didn't support the war in Iraq. ;)

Could I corroborate that suggestion? Absolutely not.
Is is possible? <_< :lol:



Explain the similar aggressions between both sides during the 1970s? Terrorism isn't a new thing.

[sylph]

Originally posted by Polaris@Aug 31 2003, 12:47 PM
All of those points are as speculative and useless as me saying that the US planted that one mad cow into Canada's cattle industry to destroy our beef market and create havoc with our economy because we didn't support the war in Iraq. ;)
good one :lol:

[Polaris]

good one :lol:

;) .... or IS it!!? :o


;)

[sonrisa]

here's what my homeboy Kucinich sez about the blackout:kucinich/blackout (http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/082503C.shtml)

[a random hack]

And that's a republican?? He'll never be president. :D

[sonrisa]

RANDOM! :o SHAME ON YOU!! Flinging such a vile insult! And you don't even know the man!! :ph34r:

Seriously Random, Kucinich ain't no repug- infact, he's about as far from one as you can get!! :D

[sonrisa]

Random, I believe I figured out the source of your confusion: There's a "Rep" before Kucinich's name becuz he's in the House. The official title for a Congressperson in the House is REPresentative, tho folx generally refer to them as their Congressman/woman. Their Senator is their Senator, even tho, as a member of Congress, a Senator is also a Congressperson. Go figure. B)

[Polaris]

;) And besides, he makes far too much sense to be a Republican...(that coming from a Canadian so you KNOW it must be true) ;) :D

[rich]

Originally posted by sonrisa@Sep 3 2003, 07:53 AM
here's what my homeboy Kucinich sez about the blackout:kucinich/blackout (http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/082503C.shtml)
Dear sonrisa,
The trouble is, he doesn't have the name recognition that other candidates have.
However I think he would be an excellent choice for VP, of course, that is contingent on whom they nominate for President. :)

[sonrisa]

Yeah, me too Richie, but like Polaris sez, Kucinich makes too much sense. But alot can happen between now & next summer's nominating convention so who knows? B)

[rich]

Originally posted by Polaris@Sep 6 2003, 09:17 PM
;) And besides, he makes far too much sense to be a Republican...(that coming from a Canadian so you KNOW it must be true) ;) :D
Polaris and sonrisa,

Polaris originally posted: ;) And besides, he makes far too much sense to be a Republican...(that coming from a Canadian so you KNOW it must be true) ;) :D

DO YOU ReALLY MEAN, THAT whatever a cANADAian tells you, one would know it is true, because it came from a Canadian? ay?
:unsure:

:D I must remember that, for truth is of prime importance.

[sonrisa]

what I MEAN is I saw Kucinich speak several months ago & what he was saying then sounded (& still does, btw) too much like right. But, ynk, maybe the country will wake up, get a reality check, & get behind the man. You can always hope.... ;)

[Polaris]

DO YOU ReALLY MEAN, THAT whatever a cANADAian tells you, one would know it is true, because it came from a Canadian? ay?

;) Well, if I told you Canada had 7% of the world's fresh water and that much of this water froze solid for about 4 months out of every year, you'd believe me, wouldn't you?? ;)

[rich]

Polaris wrote,: Well, if I told you Canada had 7% of the world's fresh water and that much of this water froze solid for about 4 months out of every year, you'd believe me, wouldn't you??

I am afraid not! :blink: The questions is too conditional to give an honest answer, and is not very specific which water will be froze solid.
7%?, from where, the lakes?, rivers, resevoirs? Which ones? Just because you told me that, as a fact, doesn't mean it as so, until i can prove it to myself.

I sound like Polaris' POV, re; GOD. ;) :lol: :D

[Polaris]

:D Hmmm, if I told you Canada had better beer or larger mosquitos, would you believe me? ;)

[rich]

The best way to find out if what said, is true,
can be proved by Polaris exporting a Canadian Beer Sampler Case. By doing that, it affords me the opportunity to rate each brew, via the * rating system. I rated these 2 Ales as follows: La Batts ****and Moosehead***.

The highest rating is *****. Will rate others, on receipt.

Anxiously awaiting the shipment. ;) :lol: B)

[Polaris]

http://static.designheaven.com/data/153/1beer21-thumb.jpg

Special delivery :D



Hmmm, sometime the image works, sometimes it doesn't. In case it doesn't there was suppose to be a big glass of beer in this post. Kinda loses something in the delivery when you have to describe the image <_<

[rich]

Originally posted by Polaris@Sep 10 2003, 06:36 AM
http://static.designheaven.com/data/153/1beer21-thumb.jpg

Special delivery :D



Hmmm, sometime the image works, sometimes it doesn't.* In case it doesn't there was suppose to be a big glass of beer in this post.* Kinda loses something in the delivery when you have to describe the image* <_<
hic/burp, :blink:

Dat was a good shllurp you left.:wacko:
tHanx HICcup hik oooooup-chuck
Wassa kinda beer was that one?
Vas it Fosters? Where is random?
SSSSSho L O N G for /to N O W !

http://static.designheaven.com/data/153/1b...eer21-thumb.jpg (http://static.designheaven.com/data/153/1beer21-thumb.jpg)[/IMG] :rolleyes: http://static.designheaven.com/data/153/1b...eer21-thumb.jpg (http://static.designheaven.com/data/153/1beer21-thumb.jpg)[/IMG]

[Polaris]

T'was a Schooner beer. Made with pride in Nova Scotia :)

WARNING: Drinking Schooner Beer in excess will result in a Bluenose. (that's a local Nova Scotian joke) ;) :)

[Polaris]

FYI... all the stuff you wanted to know about junk but were afraid to ask. :)

Explaination on the use of the word BLUENOSE (http://www.bluenose2.ns.ca/) <---click the link
The first Bluenose blew the doors (or hatches) off all other racing schooners including ships from England and the US, that is, when it wasn't depleting fish stocks off the Grand Banks. It sank off the coast of Haiti in 1946. Replaced by the Bluenose II in the 60's.
The Bluenose is Canada's FlagShip and it appears on our dime (that's .06 exchanged with US currency) ;)

Other people have been known to call nova Scotianers "Bluenosers" I say 'other' because any self-respecting Nova Scotianer would not call themselves a Bluenoser.

And actually there is a lawsuit currently underway between The Province of Nova Scotia and the Bluenose II Preservation Trust disputing who actually owns the copyright and trademark of the Bluenose.


Thus, the beer. :)

Actually Moosehead beer made it's start here in Nova Scotia too. ;)

[rich]

Dear Polaris,

Thanks for posting the BLUENOSE link. There is a lot of interesting
historical information about Nova Scotia to be found there.
Do you live near Lunenburg? :unsure: :)

[Polaris]

Nope, not really. I'm on the Bay of Fundy side. :)

[rich]

D'j'ya ever have a bagel with novie and filly for breakfast? ;) :D

[Polaris]

D'j'ya ever have a bagel with novie and filly for breakfast?


er.... I've had a bagel.. not sure about the novie and filly. :unsure:

[rich]

Polaris posted:

er.... I've had a bagel.. not sure about the novie and filly.* :blink:

If you, or any of your friends go to New York, for breakfast, order novie and filly on a bagel., translates to Nova Scotia smoked salmon orlox and Philadelphia cream cheese , on a bagel. :lol:

[Polaris]

OIC :D

I've never had salmon on a bagel. I like my salmon poached or grilled. Not a big cream cheese lover either.. unless it comes in the form of cheesecake! :wub:

[rich]

Lox, is smoked salmon, ( i like it sliced yhin, but several slices on a bagel with a generous portion of cream cheese. To get a low salt version of smoked salmon, (lox), one should specify, nova, or novie, otherwise, you'll get belly lox, which is very salty. Passing this info on, in case some of your friends ever will go to NYC. I don't think you will visit NYC. :)

[Polaris]

I don't think you will visit NYC

How astute of you!! You're absolutely right! I'm a terrible traveller. :)
I haven't been on a plane in 6 years. I have no desire (no desire at all, asheera ;) ) to get on a plane anytime soon. I am a chicken.... one who doesn't fly. ;)

[Thomas Knierim]

Lox, is smoked salmon, ( i like it sliced yhin, but several slices on a bagel with a generous portion of cream cheese.

Even this German guy in tropical Thailand is familiar with salmon bagels, though I consider that a cultural oddity. It so happened that my wife studied in NYC and Boston from where she brought a predilection for bagels. Good for her that "Au bon pain" entered the Thai market a few years ago. :rolleyes:

Cheers, Thomas

[sahyo]

I haven't been on a plane in 6 years. I have no desire (no desire at all, asheera ;)) to get on a plane anytime soon. I am a chicken.... one who doesn't fly. ;)

hehe....are sure? ;) :D

[Polaris]

Sure? About getting on a plane or being a chicken? :huh: Or both :o

[rich]

Originally posted by asheera@Sep 19 2003, 03:07 PM
I haven't been on a plane in 6 years. I have no desire (no desire at all, asheera ;)) to get on a plane anytime soon. I am a chicken.... one who doesn't fly. ;)

hehe....are sure? ;) :D
Extracted from Polaris post:

I have no desire (no desire at all, asheera ;) ) to get on a plane anytime soon. I am a chicken.... one who doesn't fly.


Why the italics, re; asheera? :unsure:
Why the question? B)

Me? :lol:

Trying to understand your motivation? ;)

[sonrisa]

Richie!! :D

you got electric!! Or are you operating on batteries?

any flooding? Did the trees stay put?

[rich]

Originally posted by sonrisa@Sep 20 2003, 02:54 AM
Richie!! :D

you got electric!! Or are you operating on batteries?

any flooding? Did the trees stay put?
Miraculously, we lucked out on Isabel.

No Damage here. Lost power for 1-1/2 hrs. that is all.

Guess that cinci was not affected at all.

Thanx for asking. :D

[sonrisa]

We had some very dark, nasty looking skies yesterday put they never opened up. Generally we are not affected by Eastern Seaboard storms- the Appalachians pretty much protect us from those. Tho in this case, the very outermost edge of Isabel did pass over here, but no rain. Now the Gulf storms, that's another matter. The stronger ones blow right on up here, tho by the time they come they are known as depressions or hurricane remnants. They can still pack a wallop tho, One of the neighbors had this huge, thick, fat tree in his yard & one of those remnants (I forget it's name) uprooted it. They've also been known to take out the electric. On the plus side, in the winter time, when the rest of the state is freezing, the Gulf blows balmy air up this way. Takes the chill off, so to speak! :)

[Polaris]

Originally posted by rich+Sep 19 2003, 02:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rich @ Sep 19 2003, 02:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--asheera@Sep 19 2003, 03:07 PM
I haven't been on a plane in 6 years. I have no desire (no desire at all, asheera ;)) to get on a plane anytime soon. I am a chicken.... one who doesn't fly. ;)

hehe....are sure? ;) :D
Extracted from Polaris post:

I have no desire (no desire at all, asheera ;) ) to get on a plane anytime soon. I am a chicken.... one who doesn't fly.


Why the italics, re; asheera? :unsure:
Why the question? B)

Me? :lol:

Trying to understand your motivation? ;)

[/b][/quote]
:lol:


I put the " (no desire at all, asheera ;) )" part in there because I knew Asheera would mention the use of the word "desire" even if I didn't draw attention to it.

And I asked the question because I was confused about which part Asheera was asking was I "sure" about. The flying or the desire. And the absolute TRUTH is (absolute truth ? :lol: as IF!!) that I'm not sure I have no desire to fly but I'm also not sure I'm not a chicken. :unsure:

:)

[rich]

Thank you for replying, Polaris, explaining why the word desire was italicized .

There appears to be another desirious/delirious person in another thebigview forum, beside asheera . :unsure:

[DavidS]

Originally posted by Polaris@Sep 21 2003, 11:19 AM
that I'm not sure I have no desire to fly . . .
This may be off point, Polaris, but I thought asheera's comment was tongue-in-cheek referring to your communicational 'flying' here. In that regard, you've got a great set of 'wings', Ladybird. :lol:

[sahyo]

I thought asheera's comment was tongue-in-cheek
referring to your communicational 'flying' here


no....which thought which wasn't?

[Polaris]

Originally posted by DavidS+Sep 21 2003, 04:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DavidS @ Sep 21 2003, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Polaris@Sep 21 2003, 11:19 AM
that I'm not sure I have no desire to fly . . .
This may be off point, Polaris, but I thought asheera's comment was tongue-in-cheek referring to your communicational 'flying' here. In that regard, you've got a great set of 'wings', Ladybird. :lol: [/b][/quote]
Ladybird ladybird fly away home,
Your house in on fire and your children are gone,
All except one and that's little Ann,
For she crept under the frying pan.

:) David, I can remember that nursery rhyme use to terrify me when I was little... probably because my real name is Ann. :o

I still feel a little bit sad whenever I see a ladybird beetle. Poor thing has already lost her house and kids!! I always make sure to put the bug out of harms way.

(I am assuming you don't mean Ladybird, the dog, right??) ;)

[Thomas Knierim]

There is a similar German nursery rhyme to scare little kids that goes like:

Maikäfer flieg,
der Vater ist im Krieg,
Mutter ist im Pommernland,
Pommernland ist abgebrannt,
Maikäfer flieg.

Since this is an unpleasant song that stems from the time after the Thirty Years' War, I will not even go into the second stanza. Literally translated it means:

May beetle fly,
father went to war,
mother went to Pomerania [Poland],
Pomerania has burnt down,
May beetle fly.

Cheers, Thomas

[Polaris]

Nursery rhymes and fairy tales can be pretty gruesome.

When I was little my aunt gave me a children's book called "Struwwelpeter" by Dr. Heinrich Hoffmann. It has some of the nastiest stories I've ever read all about children who disobeyed their parents or acted foolishly. The book scared me when I was younger but I find it pretty amazing and amusing now.

You can read them HERE (http://www.fln.vcu.edu/struwwel/struwwel.html)

[DavidS]

Originally posted by asheera@Sep 21 2003, 01:45 PM
no....which thought which wasn't?
I 'appreciate' being told my thought about what you meant was 'wrong' - t'was a guess, at best, which I only thought may have been the case. But I must say, your follow-up, "which thought which wasn't", doesn't give me the slightest 'clue' as to what meaning you intended OR additional meaning you would now like to get across. :(

[DavidS]

Originally posted by Polaris@Sep 21 2003, 02:55 PM
I am assuming you don't mean Ladybird, the dog, right??
Right! Or 'Ladybird' Johnson! Lucy-in-the-Sky-with-Diamonds, Peter Max shimmering-cartoon from The Yellow Submarine (if my memory ain't confabulatin') was more like what was going thru my mind.
:)

[Polaris]

Oh, I was thinking of the more recent TV cartoon "King of the Hill".

"Yellow Submarine" ~ Competition with "Alice In Wonderland" on which one the writer was more hepped up on goof-balls when he wrote. :)

[sahyo]

I 'appreciate' being told my thought about what you meant was 'wrong' - t'was a guess, at best, which I only thought may have been the case. But I must say, your follow-up, "which thought which wasn't", doesn't give me the slightest 'clue' as to what meaning you intended OR additional meaning you would now like to get across. :(

didn't writing, "which thought which wasn't", academicing :)

[DavidS]

Originally posted by asheera@Sep 24 2003, 01:48 PM
didn't writing, "which thought which wasn't", academicing :)
For the life of me, I can't even beging to 'imagine' what might have been going on in your head when you wrote this, asheera. Your way of expressing yourself just went from 'clueless' to 'confusing' (to me).

[sahyo]

I can't even beging to 'imagine' what might have been going on in your head when you wrote this, asheera.

yet david wrote imagining, "going on in your head", asif

[rich]

I can't even beging to 'imagine' what might have been going on in your head when you wrote this, asheera.

yet david wrote imagining, "going on in your head", asif



Polaris' communicational LADY BIRD flying, is what is, going on in asheera's head , is my unwanted opinion on this matter. B)

After all, this is a public forum, asif :ph34r: Oh well!

[fu*]

David>>>Your way of expressing yourself just went from 'clueless' to 'confusing' (to me). <<<

Sounds like a step forward. ;)

IMO(in my observation) every post from Asheera to you, has been the same post. David is thought. No-thing more, no-thing less. when "david" is no longer "David".....Debate ends.

I dont think she is trying to make you 'understand', but pointing to where "understanding" comes from.

"David" can understand.
What "david" is, is beyond "understanding".

Your concepts are 'thought'. Believed, they become you.
Then 'you' are believed.
It is the end of unity. The beginning of seperate.

Can you imagine a place beyond all thought?

The birds seem to be there, without thinking "there".

[Polaris]

Hmmm, it seems that now it's my turn for a hurricane. :o

[rich]

fu* posted:
Can you imagine a place beyond all thought?

The birds seem to be there, without thinking "there".


The word, seem has about the same definitive value as the word if . :huh:

"there" might be the "nest", in human thinking about "birds".

But not being a bird, some humans are not 'homebodies', while others are. Do not know if all birds are 'nestbodies'. :unsure:

[rich]

:P [Originally posted by Polaris@Sep 28 2003, 04:58 AM
Hmmm, it seems that now it's my turn for a hurricane. :o
W<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>OOSH</span> :D

[Polaris]

Originally posted by rich+Sep 28 2003, 12:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rich @ Sep 28 2003, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> :P [<!--QuoteBegin--Polaris@Sep 28 2003, 04:58 AM
Hmmm, it seems that now it's my turn for a hurricane. :o
W<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>OOSH</span> :D [/b][/quote]
It's a weird day. The storm is suppose to hit this evening but right now it's sort of nice out. Breezy, mostly cloudy but still with the occasionaly sunny break. People are out doing their usual Sunday afternoon things. My husband and I just got back from having pie at a local diner. We're not taking any special precautions other than putting away lawn furniture and tying down anything loose that's too big to be brought in.

The Wreck of the "Julie Plante" : a legend of Lac St. Pierre

By William Henry Drummond

On wan dark night on lac St. Pierre
De win' she blow, blow, blow
An' de crew of de wood scow "Julie Plante"
Got scar't an' run below---
For de win' she blow lak hurricane
Bimeby she blow some more,
An' de scow bus' up on lac St. Pierre
Wan arpent from de shore.

De captinne walk on de fronte deck,
An' walk de hin' deck too---
He call de crew from up de hole
He call de cook also.
De cook she's name was Rosie,
She come from Montreal,
Was chambre maid on lumber barge,
On de Grande Lachine Canal.

De win' she blow from nor' -eas' -wes',---
De sout' win' she blow too,
W'en Rosie cry "Mon cher captinne,
Mon cher, w'at I shall do?"
Den de Captinne t'row de big ankerre,
But still the scow she dreef,
De crew he can't pass on de shore,
Becos' he los' hees skeef.

De night was dark lak' wan black cat,
De wave run high an fas',
W'en de captinne tak' de Rosie girl
An' tie her to de mas'.
Den he also tak' de life preserve,
An' jomp off on de lak',
An' say, "Good-bye, ma Rosie dear,
I go drown for your sak'."

Nex' morning very early
‘Bout ha'f-pas' two---t'ree---four---
De captinne---scow---an' de poor Rosie
Was corpses on de shore,
For de win' she blow lak' hurricane
Bimeby she blow some more,
An' de scow bus' up on lac St. Pierre,
Wan arpent from de shore.

MORAL.

Now all good wood scow sailor man
Tak' warning by dat storm
An' go an' marry some nice French girl
An' leev on wan beeg farm.
De win' can blow lak' hurricane
An' s'pose she blow some more,
You can't get drown on lac St. Pierre
So long you stay on shore.


:)

[Polaris]

I should mention... you have to read that with a french accent ;)

[rich]

Polaris,

Zees The Wreck of the "Julie Plante" : a legend of Lac St. Pierre vas a funny sad storee. Zee expected storm, ees she coming from zee St. Pierre Lac? Ees she a speen-off of any of zee hurricanes we expeereensaday here? If she ees comes from zee west, maybe she ees from sonrisa's beloved seenseennatieee. Pardone madame, for :lol: my parlesvousfrancaise accent. :D

Better tie your house down. Best wishes.:mellow:

[Polaris]

Le expected storm de moi is from L'Atlantic and ez nom iss Hurricane Juan. :)

Still waiting for him.

[DavidS]

Hi fu* - thank you for your involvement and attempt to provide some clarification/illumination:

IMO(in my observation) every post from Asheera to you, has been the same post. David is thought. No-thing more, no-thing less. when "david" is no longer "David".....Debate ends.

I dont think she is trying to make you 'understand', but pointing to where "understanding" comes from.

Assuming you are right (what you say makes 'sense' to me), asheera PLEASE NOTE, I 'get' and 'agree' with:

"David" can understand.
What "david" is, is beyond "understanding".
Your concepts are 'thought'. Believed, they become you.
Then 'you' are believed.
It is the end of unity. The beginning of seperate.

PLEASE STOP trying to 'save' me from or 'guide' me out of what you regard as 'separateness'. I have 'found' a way (which 'works' for 'me' :D ) to be both 'at one' with 'everyt hing' and 'separate' at the same time. I also like and enjoy and celebrate my and everyone else's 'separateness' (on the 'worldly' stage or 'level') in the context of our absolute-inseparable unity with the source and sustain-thang of ALL THAT IS (hence with every aspect of ALL THAT IS as well).

Can you imagine a place beyond all thought?

Yes. And I like to 'go' and 'be' 'there' on oaccasion for period of time. BUT, as I say, I also like and enjoy and celebrate living 'in' the 'world of thought' -- it's a wonderful 'wedding' 'party'! I just want asheera to stop 'wet blanketing' my 'thoughtful-fun' party·cipation. What's going on? Does she (or do you fu*) perceive and experience 'separateness' (as I said in the contextof unity) as necessarily 'painful' or 'missing something important'? I feel like a david-child with an asheera-parent always!!! 'pointing out' that my word-expressions seem to be 'missing' what is most important In her eyes), as though the 'something' I am 'hitting' on is 'insignificant'. I am beyond feeling 'bad' if what I say is I'm not heard, appreciated, or 'honored', but asheera's persistent 'condescending'-trip really ('believe' :D 'me') gets tiresome!

The birds seem to be there, without thinking "there".

Hey, I groove on the way birds and other animals 'naturally' are. But I like, enjoy and wish to celebrate being 'human'. A not trivial part of such 'enjoyment' and 'celebration' being in the shared use-n-play of words (to verbally express 'thoughts', 'feelings, etc.) here. 'Birds' would of course never want or be able to join such a 'party'.

I say again: I 'get' what your responses to me 'point to' (assuming fu* is right, becuase I see what she says the same way), asheera. Please try to open yourself to and 'get' what I am about. I hope something in what I say convinces you that I 'get' the 'importance' of what you are saying even though I continue to 'play' in ways that you don't want to and don't, enough at least so you stop 'bird-dogging' what I say in my posts along the same lines, repetitively, over and over again.

Jeez ma beez - talk about being 'hounded'! IOW, talk about 'thinking' and 'feeling' that 'I', 'david', am 'hounded' in the 'realm' of my 'subjective' image·ination. I understand that you regard such imagine·ings as labeling and dealing with thangs that in ways that are not 'real', asheera, though I assure you they are in fact quite 'real' perceptions and experiences to me despite the warm-'unity'-fuzziness of your and my being expressions of one and the same 'which' and your and my words (ultimately at least) referencing the same thang.

David (a/k/a 'which' thinks/feels/believes itself to be a relatively autonomous 'individual' 'named' "David" at the same time that it gnows that "David" is but a 'concept' 'adressing' one 'imagined', if you will, 'feature'' of THAT 'WHICH' IS)

[sahyo]

no, not like thinkingyoudavid? :)

[rich]

Originally posted by Polaris@Sep 29 2003, 05:11 AM
Le expected storm de moi is from L'Atlantic and ez nom iss Hurricane Juan. :)

Still waiting for him.
Polaris,

Went on vacation to New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island back in 1969 or 1970. I remember the very high tides they have in the Bay of Fondy. Hope that you live on high ground and will be safe from any flooding, wind damage, and power failures. Hope where you live is well sheltered from the wind.

Blessings,

Regards, :)

[a random hack]

Seperate?
Where seperate?
Show me seperate!?!?

[DavidS]

Originally posted by DavidS@Sep 28 2003, 05:52 PM
'Birds' would of course never want or be able to join such a 'party'.
Correction in order, on thinking 'further' about what I said. I became more acutely aware of the fact that birds communicate both meanings and moods by way of chirps, crows, warbles, downright melodious song, and cock-a-doodle-do's.

If you think-believe that birds don't 'think' or have any 'sense' of 'me' and 'you' and 'them', fine with me. All I can say, based on my obervations, their song-n-co·motion behaviors only make 'sense' to me when I think-n-believe that they do. Some species are also adept at mimicking the 'calls' and 'song-strings' of others. I would say that that is 'evidence' of some kind of 'deliberate' 'thinking', tho 'strict' 'non'-thinker types might want to label-assign such 'process' to some kind of automatic-'instinctual' 'processor'.

Whatever the case, I don't 'see' any qualitative difference between birds chirping and singing and the 'human' word-'chirping', 'crowing', 'warbling' and 'singing' that goes on here. We share much of this sort of thing with 'birds' and the 'higher' mammals, though, once again, I caution against buying into the 'heresy' (in my view, that's what it is or would be) that there's nothing beyond what 'birds' (in this case) do that 'humans' are uniquely 'geared' for which would be 'good' for people to 'learn' to adeptly 'manage' and 'do'.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by asheera@Sep 28 2003, 07:13 PM
no, not like thinkingyoudavid? :)
I'm stumped (again). :( Anyone with half a clue as to what she's saying to me, please take a shot at translating this.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by a random hack@Sep 28 2003, 10:54 PM
Separate?
Where separate?
Show me separate!?!?
Yeah, Hack; exactly! Let me bounce of your words to speak to others in this regard:

The 'concepts' and 'words' I use often reference thangs which 'look' and 'feel' separate (as most thangs do in the 'world' of 'perception' and 'experience' -- if everythang was 'mushed' together there would be nothing except the AUM of everything to 'perceive' and 'experience' and thus only one possible reference. If nothing else, that alone, with no 'ingredients' mixed in, would be a pretty bland stew, the eating of which leaves much to be desired, IMO).

But the 'aim' (or 'intent') of my communication-mode is to (image·inatively) 'illuminate' the 'forest', by sending out 'clues' to what's 'in' 'my' (image·inative) 'vision', various sundry as well as overarching patterns-n-connections I 'see' between look-and-feel-separate thangs I 'mention'. I also 'read' what others say to 'see' what kinds of patterns-n-connections they are subjectively 'aware' of. Always aiming to 'integrate', always 'integrating'. Always aiming to 'illumine'; also always open to the possibility of 'seeing' and 'relating' thangs referenced in another 'light'.

Please don't get 'hung up' on the fact that see and say thangs pertaining to various 'trees' which I 'see' populating/generating the 'forest'. Any 'separation' is only 'nominal' - no implication of fundamental 'separation' is intended.

[a random hack]

Any 'separation' is only 'nominal'

Agreed :)

The 'concepts' and 'words' I use often reference thangs which 'look' and 'feel' separate (as most thangs do in the 'world' of 'perception' and 'experience' -- if everythang was 'mushed' together there would be nothing except the AUM of everything to 'perceive' and 'experience' and thus only one possible reference. If nothing else, that alone, with no 'ingredients' mixed in, would be a pretty bland stew, the eating of which leaves much to be desired, IMO).

Disagree :)
I consider the 'stew' to be combination of 'ingredients', not absence :)
Can still taste the paprika, garlic, pepper, oregano, thyme, rosmary, onions, potatoes, pumpkin, called stew, and all at the same time, tastes divine :D.



And s'funny, to 'prove' seperate, must adopt position of collective.
and to 'prove' collective, must adopt position of seperate.
:blink:

[sahyo]

david

reding greens
oranging yellowing brown
sunleaf
nightchill
crisping

[Polaris]

Originally posted by rich+Sep 28 2003, 11:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rich @ Sep 28 2003, 11:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Polaris@Sep 29 2003, 05:11 AM
Le expected storm de moi is from L'Atlantic and ez nom iss Hurricane Juan. :)

Still waiting for him.
Polaris,

Went on vacation to New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island back in 1969 or 1970. I remember the very high tides they have in the Bay of Fondy. Hope that you live on high ground and will be safe from any flooding, wind damage, and power failures. Hope where you live is well sheltered from the wind.

Blessings,

Regards, :) [/b][/quote]
Yes, we live on high ground. Fortunately the storm went east of us but Halifax got hammered. There's still almost 200,000 households without power. Giant trees knocked down everywhere. The hurricane was a catagory 1 but it increased ground speed as it approached the coast line so while the winds were cat 1, combined with the forward movement of the storm, those who got hit with the storm on the east side of the eye actually got winds that were gusting in excess of a catagory 2 or low catagory 3 hurricane. Thus the immense wind and storm surge damage.

Big problem with us Atlantic Canadians is that we often deal with winds the strength of catagory 1 in just regular gales etc... so this hurricane didn't scare anyone. Nobody was really prepare (except me ;) ). Stores didn't stock up on batteries and fresh water and ice etc... there have been shortages of the basics.

My husband told me Sunday before the storm hit that I was over estimating the storm because I suggested that my son move his car a little closer to the house and further away from the neighbour's tree. If the storm had hit us like it hit Halifax that tree would likely have fallen on my son's car. My husband did go out and fill for gas cans to run our generator, should there have been a need. That means we are all set for any nasty winter storms.

Anyhow, finally got internet restored. That was our only inconvienence. :)

It could have been worse. It could have been MUCH worse. In Halifax a mother and two children died in a house fire yesterday caused by an inattended candle. :(

[rich]

and you do not believe you were spared, because someone upstairs might be protecting you and your family? It could be maybe yes, and than again, it could be maybe no. Why take chances? Why not give the benefit of the doubt? :unsure: :lol: ;)

[Polaris]

Spared by devine intervention??

A while back I was fussing to a friend of mine who is a Zen master, over why I should be so fortunate to live such a seemingly 'charmed' life when there is so much suffering elsewhere and all around me. He basically told me I must have done something in a past life to afford me this life; that there is a reason I am here :) and not there :(.

I guess everywhere has the potential to be here :). It's just a matter of your state of mind. Certainly, I think we have to appreciate what we have when we have it because it can all be blown away tomorrow... maybe by Hurricane Kate. :o

[rich]

Polaris wrote:. He basically told me I must have done something in a past life to afford me this life; that there is a reason I am here and not there .

There are many who think there is no purpose for our being here.
They think there is no cause. I think your friend thinks correctly.
I can not think that all we have, and experience, is without a purpose.
We as human-beings, just do not realize that. B) :)

[a random hack]

welcome back to the stew, polaris :)

Tho I love storms, big ones can be a bit scary. Thankful we haven't had one in a few years, as get flooding 'round here when they do let go.

Nobody was really prepare (except me ).
:lol: Guess 'we' have to live and learn :)

In Halifax a mother and two children died in a house fire yesterday caused by an inattended candle.
:(

I guess everywhere has the potential to be here . It's just a matter of your state of mind. Certainly, I think we have to appreciate what we have when we have it because it can all be blown away tomorrow... maybe by Hurricane Kate.

Sorry, I'll tell the butterflies to keep it down a bit! :lol:

[Polaris]

I'm a big fan of active weather too. Although I don't care too much for the death and destruction part of it. Severe weather is like a thrill ride. Mother Nature's roller coaster.

One of the most ironic stories I heard from Hurricane Juan was that the Canadian Hurricane Centre, whose office is down on the Halifax waterfront, had to be evacuated because the storm watchers were afriad the wind would blow in their giant plate-glass windows.

Wouldn't you think a hurricane centre would not be inside a glass house but instead be located in an office more akin to a concrete bunker?? :huh: :D

[a random hack]

Mother Nature's roller coaster.

Seems 'death and destruction' also part of the 'coaster <_<

One of the most ironic stories I heard from Hurricane Juan was that the Canadian Hurricane Centre, whose office is down on the Halifax waterfront, had to be evacuated because the storm watchers were afriad the wind would blow in their giant plate-glass windows.

Now that 's what I call watching weather! :lol:

Wouldn't you think a hurricane centre would not be inside a glass house but instead be located in an office more akin to a concrete bunker??
Nope, c'mon, they can't even predict the weather with more than 70% accuracy! :lol:

[DavidS]

Originally posted by a random hack@Sep 30 2003, 07:17 PM
And s'funny, to 'prove' seperate, must adopt position of collective.
and to 'prove' collective, must adopt position of seperate.
:blink:
What you 'point' is a 'perfect' 'illustration' of the BOTH-AND principle applying and the EITHER-OR principle not applying 'in truth', in this case to the 'separate' versus 'collective' conceptual-'issue', methinks.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by asheera@Sep 30 2003, 09:12 PM
david

reding greens
oranging yellowing brown
sunleaf
nightchill
crisping
Yes, I 'see' that such things are so. But, what's your 'point'?

[a random hack]

To answer 'for' asheera, David 'needs' a 'point'? ;) :lol:
point pointless pointing?

[sahyo]

:lol: :D

[DavidS]

Originally posted by a random hack@Oct 2 2003, 07:25 PM
To answer 'for' asheera, David 'needs' a 'point'? ;) :lol:
point pointless pointing?
This 'David' 'desires' but does not 'need' anything in particular -- any 'perception' of 'need' in this regard, I suggest, falls into the 'category' of "He who dealt it, smelt it", IMO

The 'point' refers to a viable 'quantum of meaning' that is 'necessary' -- i.e., which 'must' be transmitted-n-received -- if there is to be mutual understanding pertaining to any particular subject. Of course, not everyone here is equally interested in or dedicated to such actualization.

Started thinking I probably could have thought of saying what I did better in the first place, but then realized there wasn't enough on-topic 'stimulus' in asheera's words for me to get 'enthusiastic' about doing so - 'clarification' 'effort' and 'dedication' only 'happened' in relation to the stimulus of your words Hack.

Let me know if you still think my 'asking' asheera to clarify her 'point' quantum (I respectfully, IMO, assumed she had one which she 'wanted' to 'get across', of course) was 'pointless' and why, and we can discuss the issue further if you'd like.

[a random hack]

what does singing a song mean?
i'm happy?
i'm sad?
or just that i'm singing a song?

[DavidS]

Originally posted by a random hack@Oct 8 2003, 01:03 AM
what does singing a song mean?
i'm happy?
i'm sad?
or just that i'm singing a song?
It depends on both it's content and it's context, methinks.

I also think it is a reason·able assumption that folks here, including you, Hack, have, by virtue of your 'innate' Intelligence, some 'capacity' or 'degree of ability' to discern and de·cipher what a song's content and context 'reveal', to some degree at least [!]

For what it may be worth as a stimulus for you to bounce off of, Hack, let me say that it is very 'obvious' to me (in the 'window' of 'my' 'perspective) that a 'song' may be an ex·press·ion of happiness OR sadness -- thus it may be an art·iculation that 'conveys' the message "I'm Happy" or "I'm sad" or, possibly, a nuanced combination of both 'states' of being. Apparently, you don't 'see' this, either that or you choose to 'overlook' what you 'see' and thus 'know', or you wouldn't have asked such questions in the first place (or maybe you 'intended' to 'communicate' some other 'meaning' than what I'm 'reading into' your words here).

Also, it looks to me like it is the functional response·ability of the 'singer' to meaningfully (content-'in'-context·ually) 'transmit' and it is the functional response·ability of the 'hearer' to meaningfully (content-'in'-context·ually) 'receive' (and 'resonate' to or not) what's 'embedded' in the 'transmission'. But the 'hearer' cannot even begin to exercise-n-discharge such response·ability meaningfully if the 'singer' hasn't first excercised-n-discharged his or her 'own' response·ability meaning-creatively, to some extent at lest, first. I have no idea whether you 'see' that or not.

Though it is conceivable to me that someone may sometimes 'just' be moved to sing a song with absolutely no other state-'harmonic' involved, in my view, this is really an 'impossibility', because Life (and therefore 'meaning') is always 'full' of (and 'enriched' by) a broad range of 'harmonic' 'meanings'. At least, that's what is always the case in the field of my personal perception-n-experience. So, even if someone's song-sing is not 'heard' by anyone else (and that certainly isn't the case here , your 'just' notion wouldn't/couldn't 'apply'.

I hope my response broadens the range of your awareness of and image·in·ation in relation to the nature of possible thoughts and ideas, as well as 'clearly' pertinent questions, in relation to matters being discussed.

I wonder, if you were to turn your 'questions' into a 'statement' in relation to my asking asheera to clarify what the 'significance' of the 'song' she 'sang' in this contextual-case, what that statement might be, Hack. All I can say in response to your quesions is that I personally can't 'de·cipher' any of "I'm happy," "I'm sad," or "I'm just singing a song", or anything else 'coherent' for that matter, from the 'content' expressed in this 'context'.

The only thang I'm pretty sure about is that the fact that it was specifically 'addressed' to 'me-'David (logically at least) rules out "I'm 'just' singing a song" as a 'meaning'-harmonic in this case.

Here's the 'song' that was specifically sung in case you want to take another 'crack' at de·ciphering the 'meaning' which was 'addressed' to 'me':

david

reding greens
oranging yellowing brown
sunleaf
nightchill
crisping

As I have said, I can't figure out how this 'dances' or song-'jams' along, either in agreement or disagreement, either in 'resonance' or in 'counterpoint', with anything I was talking about.

[a random hack]

For what it may be worth as a stimulus for you to bounce off of, Hack, let me say that it is very 'obvious' to me (in the 'window' of 'my' 'perspective) that a 'song' may be an ex·press·ion of happiness OR sadness -- thus it may be an art·iculation that 'conveys' the message "I'm Happy" or "I'm sad" or, possibly, a nuanced combination of both 'states' of being. Apparently, you don't 'see' this, either that or you choose to 'overlook' what you 'see' and thus 'know', or you wouldn't have asked such questions in the first place (or maybe you 'intended' to 'communicate' some other 'meaning' than what I'm 'reading into' your words here).

Also, it looks to me like it is the functional response·ability of the 'singer' to meaningfully (content-'in'-context·ually) 'transmit' and it is the functional response·ability of the 'hearer' to meaningfully (content-'in'-context·ually) 'receive' (and 'resonate' to or not) what's 'embedded' in the 'transmission'. But the 'hearer' cannot even begin to exercise-n-discharge such response·ability meaningfully if the 'singer' hasn't first excercised-n-discharged his or her 'own' response·ability meaning-creatively, to some extent at lest, first. I have no idea whether you 'see' that or not.
seems you require the singer to have a purpose...?

Though it is conceivable to me that someone may sometimes 'just' be moved to sing a song with absolutely no other state-'harmonic' involved, in my view, this is really an 'impossibility', because Life (and therefore 'meaning') is always 'full' of (and 'enriched' by) a broad range of 'harmonic' 'meanings'. At least, that's what is always the case in the field of my personal perception-n-experience. So, even if someone's song-sing is not 'heard' by anyone else (and that certainly isn't the case here , your 'just' notion wouldn't/couldn't 'apply'.
seems your life is filled with meaning. but does life require meaning, or your interpretation of life?

reding greens
oranging yellowing brown
sunleaf
nightchill
crisping

to totally bastardize this song,the meaning to me looks like a responding to 'an autumn senset'. Which totally destroys the song. sorry.

let me try again. what does a ringing bell mean? perhaps 'asheera' is a bell who realises it is a bell... <_<

[sonrisa]

Originally posted by a random hack@Oct 8 2003, 03:03 PM
what does singing a song mean?
i'm happy?
i'm sad?
or just that i'm singing a song?
and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar! :)

[DavidS]

Hi Hack -

seems you require the singer to have a purpose...?

I can understand it 'seeming' that way to you. But, IMO, you are mistakenly 'attributing' the 'requirement' to 'me'. What I have been 'saying' (at least, I think my word can 'reasonably' be 'read' as 'saying' this) is that certain things are 'required' for meaningful 'communication' to 'occur'. The 'communicational arena is a free-for-all. Please be clear about this, there is no 'requirement' by 'me' or 'the way It is' that 'communication' 'must' be meaningful, though I certainly desire meaningful 'communication' and am averse* to 'communication' (though it can't legitimately be called that then, I think) which is meaningless. (* Note: 'averse' in the same sense that one may be feel an 'aversion' to hanging around in air that's 'perfumed' by 'farts'.)

seems your life is filled with meaning. but does life require meaning, or your interpretation of life?

Yes, my life-meaning cup runneth over. IMO, Life (the panaramic flow of counter-entropic Being) is 'inherently' drops-river-flowing-oceanward meaningfull -- not because is is 'required' to be so, but because it is so.

As far as one's 'interpretation' of life is concerned, some 'interpret' life to be meaningful, others interpet it to be meaningless, others as some 'combination' of meaning and meaninglessness. The MIND is an amazing thang, but I doubt anyone [strictly speaking now] is able to 'see' 'meaning' (patterns, trends, etc.) in every life-'ripple'-set manifestation, and I doubt anyone [again, strictly speaking] 'sees' absolutely no 'meaning' in any life-'ripple'-set manifestation. Whatever the actual case, though, once more, there is no 'requirement' in this regard.

I appreciate your 'take' on the asheera's 'song. It occurred to me it's 'point' might be something like that, but couldn't 'see' how that was 'connected' with the stream of the conversation, so just ended up 'envelloped' in a 'cloud' of meaning-scatter. :D

let me try again. what does a ringing bell mean? perhaps 'asheera' is a bell who realises it is a bell... <_<

And nothing else, maybe? That makes a certain kind of sense, though I must say, the way it 'clanks' hits me the same way most 'rap' music songs do -- in both cases, tho, there are occasional exceptions which I 'enjoy' and ''cherish', when they 'happen', as 'miracles'.

Well, it looks like there's nothing more by continue to try to 'tickle' this horse. Thanks for the back-and-forth :)