Art And Religion

[vicente]

"Spare me the argument that we owe so much of our art and culture to religion; that's a misattribution. The great architecture, paintings, music, and sculpture that poured forth in adulation of saints, deities and their offspring, and the blessed deceased, were commissioned, sponsored and paid for by those who offered them as sacrifices, penance, homage, and public relations. Those offerings were items of insurance, appeasements, and bribes, to neutralize transgressions or to obtain a better position on line. They were prompted by fear. I agree that we're better off for the wealth of creative work that we're able to share as a result of this apprehension, but I often think of how much better it could have been if the work had been directed to, and designed for, our species — rather than for mythical beings in the sky or under the ground. " James Randi

http://www.randi.org/jr/072503.html

[sahyo]

was post responding poem
was posted on forum named "Religion"?, vicente

:)

[Polaris]

Originally posted by vicente@Jul 28 2003, 07:28 PM
"Spare me the argument that we owe so much of our art and culture to religion; that's a misattribution. The great architecture, paintings, music, and sculpture that poured forth in adulation of saints, deities and their offspring, and the blessed deceased, were commissioned, sponsored and paid for by those who offered them as sacrifices, penance, homage, and public relations. Those offerings were items of insurance, appeasements, and bribes, to neutralize transgressions or to obtain a better position on line. They were prompted by fear. I agree that we're better off for the wealth of creative work that we're able to share as a result of this apprehension, but I often think of how much better it could have been if the work had been directed to, and designed for, our species — rather than for mythical beings in the sky or under the ground. " James Randi

http://www.randi.org/jr/072503.html


IMO, art reflects society and although it may be a broad representation, many of the masterpieces of the Gothic and Renaissance periods reflect the importance of religion in daily lives of the people of those times. I think, for instance, to say that Michelangelo was just a commissioned artist painting what he was told to paint and not inspired by religion would be incorrect. Yes, he was commissioned to do the work and yes, he and the Pope were often at odds, what we see on the Ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and all of Michelangelo's other works are the images of his subjects whether they be real or spiritual, that gave Michelangelo inspiration to create his masterpieces. He was also commissioned to carve the statue of the biblical hero, "David". Inspired by the story of David and touched by the political tension of his times, Michelangelo (http://www.michelangelo.com/buon/bio-index2.html) wrote the following in his diary:
"When I returned to Florence, I found myself famous. The City Council asked me to carve a colossal David from a nineteen-foot block of marble -- and damaged to boot! I locked myself away in a workshop behind the cathedral, hammered and chiseled at the towering block for three long years. In spite of the opposition of a committee of fellow artists, I insisted that the figure should stand before the Palazzo Vecchio, as a symbol of our Republic. I had my way. Archways were torn down, narrow streets widened...it took forty men five days to move it. Once in place, all Florence was astounded. A civic hero, he was a warning...whoever governed Florence should govern justly and defend it bravely. Eyes watchful...the neck of a bull...hands of a killer...the body, a reservoir of energy. He stands poised to strike."

:)

[sahyo]

art reflects society



only if 'paintingnotpainting' was thinkingwhichnot

[DavidS]

. . . but I often think of how much better it could have been if the work had been directed to, and designed for, our species — rather than for mythical beings [my insertion: and charlatanic human institutions-n-organizations 'carrying the flag' thereof :D ] " James Randi.
Strikes me there may be an applicable analogy in what follows:

"He" = "Religion" (for Randi/you?)
and "me" = "humanity" (for Randi/you?).

[From Burtt, E.A. (ed), The Teachings of the Compassionate Buddha, Part 2; The New American Library, Inc., New York (1955)]

All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him, as a wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage.

All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him.

'He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me'—in those who harbor such thoughts hatred will never cease.

'He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me'—in those who do not harbor such thoughts hatred will cease.

For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time; hatred only ceases by love—this is the eternal law.

Peace.

- David

[sonrisa]

I agree with Polaris- art is a reflection of peoples' daily lives & in the Middle Ages & the Renaissance, religion was a big part of peoples' lives. Look at the art around us today- don't y'all think it's a reflection of the life & times around us? I know a dude who draws & paints these really bizarre Jesuses. My personal fave is a drawing where Jesus has jumped down off the cross & has pulled it up out of the ground, hefting it up in the air. The expression on his face reminds me of that bumper sticker- "God is coming again & He's pissed".... :)

[rich]

The following thoughts are strictly my own on the Topic of Art And Religion. Maybe there are others who may wish to express their opinion about art, Please feeel free to do so. :)

The Significance of the Meaning of The Name G O D has inspired many artists to Create some great work in one of theforms of art in Honor to God.

Each Religion has its own artists which spend many hours of their life
creating their masterpiece. Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Muslims, Jews and Christians all have their own great artists.

Even those who honor Satan, have their artists which will create masterpieces to honor Satan.

There also many fine artists, musicians, architechts and writers, that are aetheists.

I would venture to say, if you are an artist, be an artist and create for whatever is your inspiration to create.. :D ;)

[sonrisa]

always do, Richie, always do. :)

[rich]

Originally posted by sonrisa@Oct 31 2003, 01:44 PM
always do, Richie, always do. :)
always do what, Sonrisa ? :o B) :lol:

[a random hack]

love art, love religion...
seems can be explained as forms of energy release...
tho what use that explanation is, i don't know :)

[sonrisa]

Originally posted by rich@Oct 31 2003, 12:23 PM

I would venture to say, if you are an artist, be an artist and create for whatever is your inspiration to create.. :D ;)
create whatever it is my inspiration to create. I long ago gave up on trying to second guess other people as to what kind of art I think they'd like. Forget them, I draw & paint & create what I like. :P

[sahyo]

I draw & paint


is "I" drawing-painting, sonrisa? ;)

[sonrisa]

no

[sahyo]

:D

[sahyo]

is "I"charlie manson?

[rich]

R U I, asheera , or R U charles manson? Am not that f a m i l i a r with him, so can not speak about him as Charlie. ;) :P

[sahyo]

is idea-concepting-believing-"I"charliemanson? :P ;)

[rich]

:o eh heh heh! Trying to confuse me with big words like concept,
asheera? It will never work, too many moving parts. :lol: B)

[sahyo]

'haps rich-thinking-asheera-"trying to confuse"? ;)

"parts"?

[rich]

asheera, ;) I was just kidding. However, back earlier in this thread, richie made a statement he thinks is true, while creating some form of art, is being inspired by some person, place or thing/ideas?. What is asheera's source of inspiration when she works on a painting? Anything specific, or merely self motivation?
:unsure: :) ;)

[DavidS]

Originally posted by a random hack@Oct 31 2003, 09:10 PM
love art, love religion...
seems can be explained as forms of energy release...
tho what use that explanation is, i don't know :)
. . . energy 'release', yes; in this regard, I like 'ex·pression' also.

Strikes me one of the 'uses' of the 'explanation' offered may be to 'see' art and religion as both being 'creative' ex·pressions of the Life-Force, and thus, each in its own way, 'sacred', resulting in a 'good' 'attitude' towards both. 'Bad' art and 'bad' 'religion' in no way 'diminish' the 'truth' that both art and religion can be reality-perception-n-participation enhancing, i.e., that the 'best' of them can indeed be very 'good'.
:)

[sahyo]

:) hi 'I was just kidding'


What is asheera's source of inspiration when she works on a painting? Anything specific, or merely self motivation?


doesn't happen "works on a painting"
....painting happens like

though was requested two paintings
asthough-interpreting, still painting didn't happen
'til happened ;)

[rich]

asheera wrote:doesn't happen "works on a painting"
....painting happens like

though was requested two paintings
asthough-interpreting, still painting didn't happen
'til happened


What 'turned on' asheera, to cause painting to happen? Are you still painting, abstract? Are there any places on the Internet where one may view your works? :unsure: :mellow: ;) Would love to see some of your art work. :D Thanks.

[sahyo]

rich :)



paint'ng

like
evaporat'ng
mist'ng
evaporat'ng

like
sunris'ng
sett'ng
suris'ng

like
noon'ng
midnight'ng
noon'ng

like

........... pht



hehe ;)



yes painting
which is called abstract,
when happens

thanking,
but no paintings
on net
now



:D

[rich]

asheera,


interpreting:


paint'ng

like
listening
silence
listening

like
dawn
dusk
dawn

like
12:00AM
12:00PM
12:00AM

like

........... pht?



hehe



yes painting
which is called abstract,
when happens

thanking,
but no paintings
on net
now

[sahyo]

.................................................. .....................p'hntg

[rich]

.................................................. .....................p'hntg? ;)

Oh what is the word, patching? :unsure: :blink:

[a random hack]

seems can be 'pht' if allow to be 'pht'....
tho doesn't have to be this way :)

[rich]

Is a pht the same as a pffft with a lipht while others may say lisp ?

or what is a pht ? Just a definition, please? That isn't too much to ask. IOW, if you do not know, then say in honesty, I do not know. Thanks Random, I tip me hat to you. :P :D

[sonrisa]

Originally posted by asheera@Nov 3 2003, 03:34 AM
is "I"charlie manson?


hell no

[sahyo]

:lol: :D

[sahyo]

seems can be 'pht' if allow to be 'pht'....
tho doesn't have to be this way


:D

"allow"? ;)

[a random hack]

"allow"

ok, ok, praps shoulda said 'if not trying to disallow' :lol:
well, i know what i'm trying to say :)

[rich]

anyway, What is a little pht among friends? :lol: <_< :D

[sahyo]

hehe :D

[sahyo]

well, i know what i'm trying to say :)


:) ;)

[rich]

First, hack posted:seems can be 'pht' if allow to be 'pht'....
tho doesn't have to be this way


then, asheera commented with:[color=gray] allow? </span>

The next posted, was from hack: ok, ok, praps shoulda said 'if not trying to disallow'
well, i know what i'm trying to say

which means the same thing as originally stated, that pht is pht, if you allow it, or not allow it, though it does not have to be that way. Glad to see the confusion eliminated. :lol: B) as a bat. :P

[sonrisa]

sounds phat to me B)

[sahyo]

only if thinking ;)

[sonrisa]

thinking wut?

[rich]

name of game,asheera wins?pffft sounds ok to me. :D :lol:

[sahyo]

"wins"?

which thinks posting 'pht' is wining?

[sonrisa]

wut r u wining about asheera?

[sahyo]

:lol:

looked dictionary, sonrisa....

:lol: .......

'winning'

ohhh spelling

:lol:

:D

[sonrisa]

ahh spelling.... ok :)

[sonrisa]

to get back to the topic.... sometimes I think art is my religion, esp when I'm painting I find myself communing with God, sorting out various things in my life, working out a problem, or just thinking about life in general. To a lesser extent it happens when I'm playing with the clay, tho then my thoughts are more focussed on the piece I'm making- what kind of design I'm gonna put on it, if I'm gonna paint it or glaze it, etc.. how it's gonna look when its done. I'd much rather spend Sun mornings having a dialogue with god at my easel, then being bored to death in some church. Course these dialogues aren't just limited to Sundays, either, esp not now, during craft show season. Infact, I'm painting some ornaments while I'm surfing this site.

[sahyo]

can still thinking "with", 'doing', 'result',
when happening painting, claying?

[sonrisa]

well, usually when I'm claying, when I'm cleaning the piece, it speaks to me, for lack of a better description. Tells me what it wants to be when it grows up :). So that is how I make it. Sometimes I paint/draw from the images in my head, & I'll paint/draw what wants to be painted/drawn on the canvas/paper. Other times I paint/draw from fotos or postcards. That is when my mind wanders onto other things & I start dialoging with god. Ditto for when I'm finishing a clay piece the way it wants to be finished.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by sonrisa@Dec 1 2003, 01:27 AM
sometimes I think art is my religion, esp when I'm painting I find myself communing with God, sorting out various things in my life, working out a problem, or just thinking about life in general.
Strikes me as being a 'better' 'way' of being 'religious' and becoming 'conscientious' than the umteen zillion 'spectator' varieties bandied around as 'real' religion and conscientiousness out there.

Salut! - David :)

[a random hack]

yup, seems can get closer to 'GOD' without rules and guidlines getting in the way.... but guess have to start somewhere.... perhaps ;)

[sahyo]

:D s :D nrisa :D

[sonrisa]

:D asheera :D

psst Random, god is in our heads. :P