Is God Love?

[vicente]

I will not soon forget the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court in 2002 say that "The Pledge, as currently codified [with under god], is an impermissible government endorsement of religion because it sends a message to unbelievers (in a particular monotheistic god) that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community." Yes, they got it right. At last, someone standing up for Pantheists, Deists, Polytheists, Pagans, wiccans, atheists, Quantum Physicists, Buddhists, those of non-christian monotheistic beliefs, etc. Finally, someone standing up for inclusion, instead of the neo-conservative idea of "if you're not with us, you're against us".

As I am an asute advocate of altering the unAmerican, 1954 National Motto "in god we trust" to "In Love We Trust", I often hear, near always from Christians, that god is love. And each time I hear that, I am so curious as to where such an idea comes from.

Every dictionary definition I've seen says nothing about god being love, but alot about the prodigious variety of god's characterics. I also searched the Jewish scriptures,...no god of love there. Heck, the Jewish g-d didn't even accept its creations till after he saw if they were good. However, in the Christian scriptures, it does mention that their particular monotheistic god is love,...near the end, in the late 2nd Century apology 1John. Although in the rest of their "bible", this Patriarch is clearly a murderous, pro-slavery, vacillant, petty, racist, conditional god.

Despite that fact, one should give the Christians the benifit of the doubt so to say, and allow them to describe what this love of their particular god is.

Fundamentally, according to the doctrines they say were divinely inspired, Christian love, what they like calling agape, is merely a conditional love; a love based on unselfish, non-sexual commitment to those of similar convictions.

To better understand this type of love, simply consider the Great Love Chapter of Christendom, Corinthians 13; ie., "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7. Although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is more compassionate then passionate, more commitment orientated then fleeting, it isn't Unconditional Love, but merely the devotion, attachment and expectation to the conditions of their beliefs. Thus, no matter how one perceives it, experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief, which is nothing less than a self-perpetuating delusion.

Belief, another concept that dishonest people cling to, always implies an element of doubt. Is not trusting in a monotheistic god, or any belief, committing ones reliance, dependence, certitude, allegiance and potential transcendence to something that is not true? What is not true is false. Failure to recognize the false as false, or a belief as that which suppresses, denies, disempowers and disconnects, is the ruination of destiny's and self-sabotour of the full expression of ones inherent gifts. If something was true, there would be no reason to believe it.

If we are to trust, should we not let our trust be with something we can never leave and that can never leave us? Yes, I understand that everyone thinks their particular god, gods, or goddess will never leave them; however, why not let our trust be in love,...something monotheists, Pantheists, polytheists, atheists, etc., can all share in. Honestly, does trusting in the myth of a deity, love, or insanity? Simply consider the hundreds of conditions that the Judeao-Christian-Muslem gods put on their faithful. For example, what if ones greatgrandfather was born outside of marriage; are the parents punished for this? Of course not. However, the children are punished. And not only them, but their children as well; as it says in Deuteronomy (23:2), "no bastard shall enter the kingdom of heaven, not even to the tenth generation...". For those who would say that is the old covenant, such comments only imply that their god is indeed a vacillant, conditional, changing god. Love however, real love, is like truth, it's unchanging and not conditional.

'In Love We Trust' should be an acceptable National Motto to nearly all, especially freedom loving, Constitutional minded Paine-Jefferson-Adams Americans. Love is our inherent nature; the essence of our uncorrupted, unmedia-ted Human Beingness. What better motto to encourage us to fulfill the dream of America's Founding Fathers,...Of many, One.

And remember,...under George Washington, a document was drafted in 1796, then ratified by the Senate and sign into law on June 10, 1797 by President John Adams which said, "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded upon the Christian religion".


Vicente
:)

[rich]

A good subject as a Topic, Vicente.

As you should know, The teachings of Jesus was meant to change many
of the Old Testament Laws, especially like the those in Deuteronomy which you quoted. I thinh that a majority of the clergy in any Christian Persuasion, would tell you the same thing.

But even if they did, you would continue to use that same little known quote to further argue your POV.

Any of my Christian friends whom I speak to, would not agree or follow that law. Only the Christian Fundamentalists would.

God's love is unconditional. Is the love you have for neighbor and God unconditional.?
To expect unconditional love from an external source, the love within you must be as unconditional as what you would expect to receive.

[sahyo]

If we are to trust, should we not let our trust be with something we can never leave and that can never leave us? Yes, I understand that everyone thinks their particular god, gods, or goddess will never leave them; however, why not let our trust be in love,...something monotheists, Pantheists, polytheists, atheists, etc., can all share in.


loving not separate"something"whichnot

painfearingthinks"trust"whichnot

:)

[Ronagon]

I would say that God is "love" only if by love, you mean "bullying and whimsical". Then yes, God is love.

The kind of love that we're told to feel for God is more like Stockholm Syndrome... where you're held captive by a bully and he renders you so totally helpless and dependent on him, that when he doesn't kill you, he seems like your savior, and you come to "love" him...

But you completely forget that HE was the reason you were so rendered so helpless to begin with.

[venom mama]

don't you all think it's funny that whenever you talk "God" you only write what others say and do?


i guess no one can think for themselves, see with their own experiences, how easy it is to blame others for what we don't understand.



so much intelligence


so little wisdom

[jesupocaplypse]

... do You, only write what others say and do as a way of talking to god?

Can You not think for yourself, see with your own experience? Do You blame others for what you don't understand?

It's not good practice to over generalize about the thoughts and doings of everyone else, and speak in absolutes. you'll forget about yourself. about what really matters.

I 'talk' to "god" by breathing, feeling, living and being. "God" isn't a man in the sky watching everything you do and taking notes to grade you with upon completion.... God is a word. A symbol used to represent the personification of a concept which many don't understand, and just accept the pre-packaged deals (religion)

Don't be overly concerned with Other peoples thoughts and actions, what about Your thoughts and actions in relation to the Force? (or god, goddess, Creator, Maker, Lifeforce, Ea, Eru, Jah, Yahweh, whatever word you want to use...)

Venomgirl, Don't tell us what other people say and do, we can see that for ourselves.... Tell us what You see and do, your the one who's here and now. ;)

[danish]

well to me love is the only emotion that can give you salvation as there is noting called expectation in love but only giving and that is the state of complete surrender to the one you love may be a living being or abstract or just any thing or may be the supreme power of this entire creation,to me lord krishna.i strongly belive love is also a dimenssion of our existance.it is the purest of all the emotions one can have.This emotion can be called god but to be more precise the other name of god is love.
my best and sincere regards to all users.

[Starry_Canopy]

If God is beyond our ability to comprehend or define, which is how I hear it is, love can only be an attribute of God and not God per se, since we can comprehend love.

[Starry_Canopy]

Another thing, whether people use the motto "In God we trust" believing it to refer to the 'Christian God' or not should not matter to the non-Christians or those who believe that there is no God. Non-Christian believers of God can use the motto equally well and take it to refer to 'their God' or to the 'one God' common to all by whichever name if that is how they choose to believe in God. Atheists could take 'God' to refer to 'Goodness'. I think all these conflicts arise because of our fixation with the labels (verbal, visual, conceptual) and not the inherent value of the proposition.

[VossistArts]

In God we trust.

is that right? so were all trusting in the incomprehensible? that doesnt sound too good somehow. on the other hand perhaps that kind of trust is a sure bet.

I'd have to say that god isnt love. I mean god like the creative resource, that from which all things manifest. love is a concept for sure but even if it is a reality somehow, god isnt a reality. by that I mean god isnt a thing. everything comes from god maybe, but god doesnt come from anything. god isnt something you can simply define with concepts. even if you use every concept to try to define god, they will fall infinitely short of success. probably anything you try to say about god, is completely what god is not.

[Patheya]

Love is the highest form of emotional vibration that works for communication with what ever that thing is out there - some call god.

Love is a tool to be able to use. It is what we have, as a language for healing ourselves and others. It is where we need to go if we want to find out 'more'.

Love is a language to communicate with the creator with the least amount of static.

What god is - I can not possibly know, being me, with my limited perception and understanding.

[Raistlan]

This is an interesting question to ask that allmost seems like a trick question.
To say God is love is to equate God to an emotion that he created, but to say love is God is to describe only a small part of God. It would seem that i believe in both and none at the same time. Whoever posted this question had an excellent thought provoking question. I would say that I think God shows unconditional love to us but I don't know if i would call God love.

[loveGOD]

Hello Loving Friends... I'm thinking thanks and learning to give thanks to GOD. I'm thinking Love's GOD. I loudly pronounce: love's GOD. I'm thinking we're like a well filled full and over-flowing. Let your love flow loving friend. Peace be to all. :loveyou:

[Malinson]

Hello Loving Friends... I'm thinking thanks and learning to give thanks to GOD. I'm thinking Love's GOD. I loudly pronounce: love's GOD. I'm thinking we're like a well filled full and over-flowing. Let your love flow loving friend. Peace be to all. :loveyou:

According to biblical texts, God has expressed many emotions including anger and jealousy. Jealousy for him seemed to be more of a zealous intolerance. Some claim that he can be just as angry or jealous as he is loving. Turning one into a pillar of salt or condemning one to eternal suffering is an action that seems contrary to a being that IS love.

-Malinson

[VossistArts]

This is an interesting question to ask that allmost seems like a trick question.
To say God is love is to equate God to an emotion that he created, but to say love is God is to describe only a small part of God. It would seem that i believe in both and none at the same time. Whoever posted this question had an excellent thought provoking question. I would say that I think God shows unconditional love to us but I don't know if i would call God love.

I agree. Patheya says Love is a language to communicate with the creator with the least amount of static. So what about communicating things that dont fall under the description of love? As far as I can imagine anyway, God is everything. Love is one of many things. I can see how a person might see love as being the highest of expressions or feelings about reality, but somehow I think that everything else that is God is is as significant. There is a deeper understanding of things than what we call them, and than of the concepts we build around them. Even beyond the deeper understandings of things is the idea that what God is, is beyond any kind of label, or understanding available to us.

[vicente]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBEIeRSLb8k&feature=related

[scameter]

Well, in Christianity God is equated with love, and indeed only in Christianity, since that is only said in the New Testament. The meaning attempting to be given with that statement is understood better alongisde the other Biblical statement, "all good comes from God". Thus, God is love in the sense that love is a good thing, and thus God is the originator of it. When God is not present in something, it is not good, including human intentions, in Christianity.

[Malinson]

Well, in Christianity God is equated with love, and indeed only in Christianity, since that is only said in the New Testament. The meaning attempting to be given with that statement is understood better alongisde the other Biblical statement, "all good comes from God". Thus, God is love in the sense that love is a good thing, and thus God is the originator of it. When God is not present in something, it is not good, including human intentions, in Christianity.

A Universe without life is a universe tantamount to non-existance...

-Malinson

[scameter]

The universe existed for quite some time before living organisms developed, on Earth at least.

[...]

A Universe without life is a universe tantamount to non-existance...

-Malinson

..define life?

[John]

..define life?Is God Love?God, in order to be God, is everything (including what we perceive as good or evil/bad. However, to us (myself at least) 'God' (being part of the God of everything) is creative, or good. In my view the whole universe is made of information (which implies a Mind) and with us being made of the stuff of the universe, the meaning of human life is a reflection of the coming together of matter. This is why we need to be with people and this is why we need to communicate. This is why being in isolation and on our own for a length of time can feel bad.

[John]

Love is the highest form of emotional vibration that works for communication with what ever that thing is out there - some call god. Vibration of what, exactly?
Love is a tool to be able to use. It is what we have, as a language for healing ourselves and others. It is where we need to go if we want to find out 'more'.

Love is a language to communicate with the creator with the least amount of static.

What god is - I can not possibly know, being me, with my limited perception and understanding.God, that is, the God of all, is the (very) intelligent Mind from which everything came into existence - 'good' or 'bad.' We cannot begin to understand everything about that Mind, otherwise we would know all there is about the universe and more. However, we can understand what God is - a Mind - as seen in the structured and logical information of matter and energy - yet at the same time, stars are destroyed and there also exists chaos.

A photon does not have mass but is a virtual particle, not a real thing. What's more, unless photons are travelling they cease to exist! So what is a photon? It is a bundle of information and even light has logical structure. Therefore I conclude that matter came from photon energy, which acts as the messenger from the Mind from which everything came into existence.

[Patheya]

Let's clarify -

Love is - and that is God.

Selfishness and Greed - this is essentially 'hate' of others, and if you don't like that term, let's call it ignorance of the truth that we are all, fundamentally, the same, and we are, all brothers and sisters.

The fact that we can NOT see this, is MAN made and is not of God, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, all is under the power of the great mind - the cosmic energy - but man created and creates its little pet evils/sins/negatives from his delusion that he is an island to himself. Selfishness and egoism is the great creation of man - and this is NOT of God.

Love is communication with God. Love creates the right mindframe to enter into oneness with God. And to do that, we have to admit that our selfish, petty, egocentric ways are NOT right, and be willing to give them up for the total love of God.

Every emotion has an energy force. I feel them. Many other people feel them. Some people call this being psychic. I think everyone can feel them. Emotion is vibration. Love is the vibration you feel just before you transcend into oneness. In oneness, nothing is and everything is. That's why its hard to explain it to people trapped in thinking "I am right" - you have to be humble. You have to be soft. You have to be willing to give things up. Like the need to be right, the need to be heard, the need to have YOUR time.

All of our 'miss deeds' are not given to god - God is only light. It can not understand or see our darkness. Only our mind sees it. We are the ones feeling guilt and shame and begging for forgiveness. God isn't - is it? I've never heard of it or seen it. Or read about it.

Humans are the twisted ones. Not god. We can not serve one and the other. Man and God.

Serve One. Then you don't exist any more - only God. And god is love.

[...]

..god is a word that expresses an ideal, not a reality. If god is an actual state of being instead of a mental image of what we like others to be, we'd see more of it in everyday life. It's not wrong to try to live towards the actualisation of that ideal, as long as you do the utmost to achieve that. Not many people who say they are religious and believe in the goodness of god show this willingness to fulfill the desire to become [one with] god. IMO, this is because we are not shown the right way to attain the right mindset. Belief alone does not cut it, it's actually hard work. Work most of us do not want to do...

[VossistArts]

Well, in Christianity God is equated with love, and indeed only in Christianity, since that is only said in the New Testament. The meaning attempting to be given with that statement is understood better alongisde the other Biblical statement, "all good comes from God". Thus, God is love in the sense that love is a good thing, and thus God is the originator of it. When God is not present in something, it is not good, including human intentions, in Christianity.

I'm only somewhat familiar with the contents of the NT. So it says " All good comes from God." Does it say somewhere else the that which is considered bad doesn't come from God, or that it comes from some other source? As far as I'm aware in Christianity ,God, or the creator is the creator of all things, not just good things. Am I wrong according to the bible?



God, that is, the God of all, is the (very) intelligent Mind from which everything came into existence - 'good' or 'bad.' We cannot begin to understand everything about that Mind, otherwise we would know all there is about the universe and more. However, we can understand what God is - a Mind - as seen in the structured and logical information of matter and energy - yet at the same time, stars are destroyed and there also exists chaos.

A photon does not have mass but is a virtual particle, not a real thing. What's more, unless photons are travelingout by Satan as the path the God. they cease to exist! So what is a photon? It is a bundle of information and even light has logical structure. Therefore I conclude that matter came from photon energy, which acts as the messenger from the Mind from which everything came into existence.
Hmm.. Interesting idea there. At any rate I believe photons are considered real things. There are different way to detect photons in fact.

That being said, a photon is a thing. But God cant be considered a thing, because a thing has to have a source right? It must have come from something or somewhere unless you believe it is self created somehow. If something is created, it must have a creator. Thats why I say to those who believe God to be any"thing" tangible, such as a being or entity or the supraMind, that in that case God as creator of the Universe must be a demiurge (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/demiurge),because as a thing it still would have to have a source or creator of it.

Let's clarify -

Love is - and that is God.

Selfishness and Greed - this is essentially 'hate' of others, and if you don't like that term, let's call it ignorance of the truth that we are all, fundamentally, the same, and we are, all brothers and sisters.

The fact that we can NOT see this, is MAN made and is not of God, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, all is under the power of the great mind - the cosmic energy - but man created and creates its little pet evils/sins/negatives from his delusion that he is an island to himself. Selfishness and egoism is the great creation of man - and this is NOT of God.

Love is communication with God. Love creates the right mindframe to enter into oneness with God. And to do that, we have to admit that our selfish, petty, egocentric ways are NOT right, and be willing to give them up for the total love of God.

Every emotion has an energy force. I feel them. Many other people feel them. Some people call this being psychic. I think everyone can feel them. Emotion is vibration. Love is the vibration you feel just before you transcend into oneness. In oneness, nothing is and everything is. That's why its hard to explain it to people trapped in thinking "I am right" - you have to be humble. You have to be soft. You have to be willing to give things up. Like the need to be right, the need to be heard, the need to have YOUR time.

All of our 'miss deeds' are not given to god - God is only light. It can not understand or see our darkness. Only our mind sees it. We are the ones feeling guilt and shame and begging for forgiveness. God isn't - is it? I've never heard of it or seen it. Or read about it.

Humans are the twisted ones. Not god. We can not serve one and the other. Man and God.

Serve One. Then you don't exist any more - only God. And god is love.

Even though you begin by wanting to clarify things, Im still not clear on what youre saying exactly. It seems like youre suggesting that Love is of God and that which is not love is of man not God. Isnt love emotion based? Emotions are feelings and we feel love for things.Is this because of God or because we believe we have reasons for being strongly and emotionally attached to something in a way that feels good. Anger and sadness are feelings too. Why is this not of God and only because we believe we have reasons for being strongly and emotionally repulsed by something in a way that bad. Evil, sins, negativity, are all concepts. They are concepts created by people. Love is also a concept. In nature, if you exclude people, where does Love and good, and where do evils, sins, and negativity exist? I believe youll have a difficult time pinning either kinds of concepts down there. Does that mean God has nothing to do with nature, especially things in nature that we might judge to be harmful, or cruel, or even unthinking?

I think what is clear is that love,good, rightousness, anger, sadness, hatred, sin, and wrong, are concepts invented and maintained by the thoughts of people.

You say that Love creates the mindframe to enter oneness with God. Are ignorant people incapable of Love? Or love God? Even people who commits heineous crimes have things they love. Or is it that one must love everything good, and have no ignorance, or lack of understanding in order to enter onesness with God?

I have come to see that ignorance itself ultimately creates the mindset of the enlightened. We suffer because of living in ignorance. The pain of suffering inspires us to see the truth which dispels the ignorance. When we hate, the result is that we live in conflict with Love. The hateful often are difficult to love and so often live without it. People dont hate because they dont want to be loved, they hate because of ignorance, lack of understand,lack of self awareness and control. So as a result they suffer lacking love, they suffer because they hate even though they often believe they hate because they suffer. Do you agree this is often the reality of the hateful? Occasionally, the hateful will encounter someone who has real compassion and cant give the love and understanding dispite the harsh energy they recieve in return. It is possible to help transform the hateful through love is the one loving is skillful. This is the exception and not the rule. Often the hateful have to find the truth alone and abandoned by others. And they do at some point find this truth. That being said, are you suggesting that God has nothing to do with process? It seems to me that greater understanding of things is that often times the Negative teaches the Possitive. The Bad leads to the Good, the Sinful to the Righteous. It is only in that linear progress, from Bad to Good that, in my opinion, we find evidence for the existence of a God that holds good, and even love, in the highest esteem, in the seat of glory, the holy of the holy.

It was Socrates that showed me that logic when I was around 17. Until then I doubted the existence of God, or even the idea of good being something ultimately greater than bad. I think it was somewhere in Plato's republic. So its easy to imagine the goal, or goodness, or oneness with God being Godly, but it is naive to think that the way there was paved by something other than God. Or would you say that since God is only light, not understanding our darkness, that it is rather something likwe Satan (representing bad or evil or ignorance) that actually leads us to God? hmmm Interesting. If you actually do believe in this division, on side being of God, the other of Satan, then you almost have no choice but to see the road laid out by Satan as the path the God.

[kris]

To the woman he said,

"I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing: in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."

Genesis 3.16

These are hardly words of love. Yet God is quoted as having said them.

[schrodinger]

These are hardly words of love. Yet God is quoted as having said them.


Life was not meant to be easy. It is tough love all the way.

[kris]

Life was not meant to be easy. It is tough love all the way.

Nice try, but ..... do you know how these ugly words were uttered for an utterly idiotic reason? One more thing - tough love does not have be heinous. One has be really vile to say something this obnoxious.