rich
21st June 2003, 09:23 AM
:o richie t
Group: Members
Posts: 1508
Joined: Jan. 2001
Posted: June 18 2003,02:36
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All of the posts on this topic are pre-9/11. I know my POV has changed re: The Holy Ghost/Spirit, since writing the post I wrote in this thread.
God has been defined as a Spirit.
A Spirit has been defined as having no body.
I would assume then, that God has no body.
Would also assume that, Spirit/ God are the same.
By thinking this, I am not denying God. I am not denying that their is an intelligence who created and continually creating that which we human-beings call the Universe.
The most learned of us are continually searching for answers about Creation.
AFAIK, God started the ball rolling, and it will continue to roll. forever and ever.
Quote
Gospel of John In the beginnining was The Word and The Word was God.
--------------
Richie
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Polaris
Unregistered
Posted: June 18 2003,03:11
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Hi Richie,
Quote
AFAIK, God started the ball rolling, and it will continue to roll. forever and ever.
Just curious. I'm not going to argue the existence of God since it's not my place to. So assuming God did start the ball rolling, do you think he plays an active part in keeping the ball rolling moment by moment, or wasit a one shot deal and we are rolling along now due to some sort of divine perpetual motion?
I've often been curious as to why, if there is God, does he seem to condemn some people to live empoverished lives full of suffering, and some people die in frighteningly painful ways and yet on the other end of the scale, some live on the top of an ivory tower with food and lavish surroundings. I guess I've always been confused about that. I think about an innocent child born into horrendous poverty or cruelty and wonder, what sin could that child possibly have done in his short lifetime to deserve such suffering.
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richie t
Group: Members
Posts: 1508
Joined: Jan. 2001
Posted: June 18 2003,05:35
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God is not responsible for the rules and conditions that man has made. The Spirit/ God, gave man free will. Man is the one responsible for rules and regulations, including the monetary system, religious rules and dogma. Why blame the Creator for the creation made. Blame the misuse of the free will, given as a gift from God to we human-beings.
Could you have it any other way?
--------------
Richie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polaris
Unregistered
Posted: June 18 2003,06:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
God is not responsible for the rules and conditions that man has made. The Spirit/ God, gave man free will. Man is the one responsible for rules and regulations, including the monetary system, religious rules and dogma. Why blame the Creator for the creation made. Blame the misuse of the free will, given as a gift from God to we human-beings.
Could you have it any other way?
No, I don't think I could have it any other way. I think you are completely right and that man is responsible for the conditions man has made. And I think you are extremely open-minded compared to many of the other Christians I have run across in my day.
Take Confession, for instance. I think it's great that people recognise their wrong doings and confess them as a form of *personal repentance* but it seems to me that the main reason people go to Confession is not for personal repentance but to recieve forgiveness from God. And I note that they always get that forgiveness provided they do a certain number of Hail Marys. Then feeling like their sins have been washed away with God's forgiveness they go off to do the same misdeeds all over again, filling in their clean slate with sin for next week's confession.
Or if something goes wrong in their life they don't take responsibility for the fact that perhaps they might have done something wrong to cause the misfortune. Instead it becomes a "test from God" or "God's will" etc.... There's a general feeling of "passing the buck".
A few years ago I was lightly explaining things like karma and she emailed me back and wondered how could I believe in something that left me so powerless. She thought that karma meant that my fate was already sealed and that nothing I could do now could change it. But it's not like that at all. It's completely empowering to know that what we do makes a difference. I can be a jerk all my life and die a million deaths, or I can put effort into being good and if I still end up dying a million deaths then at least I will have hopefully lessened somebody else's suffering. Because it's not about ME. I don't matter. Whatever I do, I do for the other guy and if you can make that happen then it stands to reason that you shouldn't have anything to confess. You will not have hurt anything or anybody if you take their well-being into consideration first. It should technically get pretty easy if you manage to get to that point 24/7 (I am not there yet so I couldn't tell you for sure
"Practice makes perfect" so they say.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
asheera
Unregistered
Posted: June 18 2003,12:22
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Quote
or I can put effort into being good and if I still end up dying a million deaths then at least I will have hopefully lessened somebody else's suffering. Because it's not about ME. I don't matter. Whatever I do, I do for the other guy and if you can make that happen then it stands to reason that you shouldn't have anything to confess. You will not have hurt anything or anybody if you take their well-being into consideration first.
"effort" = reacting
...when reacting-effort, which may appear to lessen suffering
may prolong or strengthen it
no "make that happen"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polaris
Unregistered
Posted: June 18 2003,21:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asheera
Quote
"effort" = reacting
...when reacting-effort, which may appear to lessen suffering
may prolong or strengthen it
no "make that happen"
But is it the reacting-effort which causes the suffering or the attachement to an expected or desired outcome?
If I practice Right Effort to the very best of my ability then it will lessen suffering if even minimally. Yet if I attach myself to whatever suffering remains THEN I have possibly prolonged or strengthened it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
richie t
Group: Members
Posts: 1508
Joined: Jan. 2001
Posted: June 18 2003,23:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polaris,
Why have any expectations? By having expectations for happenings which are out of your control, makes you vulnerable. 1st gain control, then expectations are not needed,
they just happen. <<<-----(i Think)
--------------
Richie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to be continued:
Group: Members
Posts: 1508
Joined: Jan. 2001
Posted: June 18 2003,02:36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the posts on this topic are pre-9/11. I know my POV has changed re: The Holy Ghost/Spirit, since writing the post I wrote in this thread.
God has been defined as a Spirit.
A Spirit has been defined as having no body.
I would assume then, that God has no body.
Would also assume that, Spirit/ God are the same.
By thinking this, I am not denying God. I am not denying that their is an intelligence who created and continually creating that which we human-beings call the Universe.
The most learned of us are continually searching for answers about Creation.
AFAIK, God started the ball rolling, and it will continue to roll. forever and ever.
Quote
Gospel of John In the beginnining was The Word and The Word was God.
--------------
Richie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polaris
Unregistered
Posted: June 18 2003,03:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Richie,
Quote
AFAIK, God started the ball rolling, and it will continue to roll. forever and ever.
Just curious. I'm not going to argue the existence of God since it's not my place to. So assuming God did start the ball rolling, do you think he plays an active part in keeping the ball rolling moment by moment, or wasit a one shot deal and we are rolling along now due to some sort of divine perpetual motion?
I've often been curious as to why, if there is God, does he seem to condemn some people to live empoverished lives full of suffering, and some people die in frighteningly painful ways and yet on the other end of the scale, some live on the top of an ivory tower with food and lavish surroundings. I guess I've always been confused about that. I think about an innocent child born into horrendous poverty or cruelty and wonder, what sin could that child possibly have done in his short lifetime to deserve such suffering.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
richie t
Group: Members
Posts: 1508
Joined: Jan. 2001
Posted: June 18 2003,05:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God is not responsible for the rules and conditions that man has made. The Spirit/ God, gave man free will. Man is the one responsible for rules and regulations, including the monetary system, religious rules and dogma. Why blame the Creator for the creation made. Blame the misuse of the free will, given as a gift from God to we human-beings.
Could you have it any other way?
--------------
Richie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polaris
Unregistered
Posted: June 18 2003,06:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
God is not responsible for the rules and conditions that man has made. The Spirit/ God, gave man free will. Man is the one responsible for rules and regulations, including the monetary system, religious rules and dogma. Why blame the Creator for the creation made. Blame the misuse of the free will, given as a gift from God to we human-beings.
Could you have it any other way?
No, I don't think I could have it any other way. I think you are completely right and that man is responsible for the conditions man has made. And I think you are extremely open-minded compared to many of the other Christians I have run across in my day.
Take Confession, for instance. I think it's great that people recognise their wrong doings and confess them as a form of *personal repentance* but it seems to me that the main reason people go to Confession is not for personal repentance but to recieve forgiveness from God. And I note that they always get that forgiveness provided they do a certain number of Hail Marys. Then feeling like their sins have been washed away with God's forgiveness they go off to do the same misdeeds all over again, filling in their clean slate with sin for next week's confession.
Or if something goes wrong in their life they don't take responsibility for the fact that perhaps they might have done something wrong to cause the misfortune. Instead it becomes a "test from God" or "God's will" etc.... There's a general feeling of "passing the buck".
A few years ago I was lightly explaining things like karma and she emailed me back and wondered how could I believe in something that left me so powerless. She thought that karma meant that my fate was already sealed and that nothing I could do now could change it. But it's not like that at all. It's completely empowering to know that what we do makes a difference. I can be a jerk all my life and die a million deaths, or I can put effort into being good and if I still end up dying a million deaths then at least I will have hopefully lessened somebody else's suffering. Because it's not about ME. I don't matter. Whatever I do, I do for the other guy and if you can make that happen then it stands to reason that you shouldn't have anything to confess. You will not have hurt anything or anybody if you take their well-being into consideration first. It should technically get pretty easy if you manage to get to that point 24/7 (I am not there yet so I couldn't tell you for sure
"Practice makes perfect" so they say.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
asheera
Unregistered
Posted: June 18 2003,12:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
or I can put effort into being good and if I still end up dying a million deaths then at least I will have hopefully lessened somebody else's suffering. Because it's not about ME. I don't matter. Whatever I do, I do for the other guy and if you can make that happen then it stands to reason that you shouldn't have anything to confess. You will not have hurt anything or anybody if you take their well-being into consideration first.
"effort" = reacting
...when reacting-effort, which may appear to lessen suffering
may prolong or strengthen it
no "make that happen"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polaris
Unregistered
Posted: June 18 2003,21:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asheera
Quote
"effort" = reacting
...when reacting-effort, which may appear to lessen suffering
may prolong or strengthen it
no "make that happen"
But is it the reacting-effort which causes the suffering or the attachement to an expected or desired outcome?
If I practice Right Effort to the very best of my ability then it will lessen suffering if even minimally. Yet if I attach myself to whatever suffering remains THEN I have possibly prolonged or strengthened it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
richie t
Group: Members
Posts: 1508
Joined: Jan. 2001
Posted: June 18 2003,23:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polaris,
Why have any expectations? By having expectations for happenings which are out of your control, makes you vulnerable. 1st gain control, then expectations are not needed,
they just happen. <<<-----(i Think)
--------------
Richie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to be continued: